I’ve been having a debate of sorts with this young lady over here (I can’t believe the day I would actually call someone else “young lady”… oh my god I’m old!), and the first thing that springs to mind about Gayle Goh is that she is intelligent, well-read, articulate… and left-wing.
It’s not just her I think. It appears that the brightest from our education system tend to be lefties. This is a depressing trend.
I think it might have something to do with the fact that our entire education system is state-run. When ah-kong controls everything, and the teachers are all employees of ah-kong, I guess there is very little incentive to teach that people can get on perfectly fine without interference from governments. Little wonder also that the products of our education system have a ‘employee’ mindset. How do you cultivate entrepreneurs when everyone’s conception of capitalism is that it is an evil to be constrained by the state?
The idea that governments can design and tweak society or the economy to get the results you want is like believing that God has tweaked and designed humanity to make us what we are.
Yes. Left-wingers and intelligent-designers bear the same strain of lunacy.
18 Comments
Intelligent, but still a product of Govenment’s tweaking. Have tell tale signs. What a waste.
I used to be libertarian - heck, I used to be a “build your own goddamned roads” anarchist. It’s not Singapore that directed me leftwards; it’s the combined experience of living in Britain and America.
I think history including recent years show that students take up a large demographic in activism. A prominent example of the top of my head was the French in the late 60s. Students in the States and UK are also active in the protest and rallies against the Iraq war. My own student union held high an anti-bush/blair/war banner last year as students sought out petitions on the streets.You may even be pleasantly surprised to hear that even a group of high school kids from Texas had organised their own peaceful street protest against the new illegal immigration bill.
Such patriotism and level of indentifying with their country in a young age group can only be envious for Singapore. You made the right conclusion that this is probably deeply rooted in the country being more of Singapore Inc rather than Singapura. The education system is equally responsible for our complacent students. By imposing a class or streaming system, the education system may be efficient and weeding out the future money-makers. But in terms of nuturing people, it lacks entirely. And that’s why I will not be surprised when 30% of the youth will be able to emmigrate 5 to 10 years from now without batting an eyelid.
“The idea that governments can design and tweak society or the economy to get the results you want is like believing that God has tweaked and designed humanity to make us what we are.”
To respond more specifically to your point here, some of us would argue that the belief that one standard form of government (i.e. the least possible) and one prescriptive set of principles (i.e. libertarianism) can produce the best possible results in all societies, regardless of the contingencies of fact and circumstance, is much more akin to religious belief that the willingness to consider each situation in its own particularity. Context is everything.
No, you’re not the only libertarian here. However, as you well know, libertarians of many varieties can exist.
“It’s not just her I think. It appears that the brightest from our education system tend to be lefties. This is a depressing trend.”
Yes, it does appear to be the current trend.
Aiyah, gotta take it easy.
While I don’t agree with some of the girl’s views, I like her.
At least she can think for herself and express what she believes (or at least think she believes in) in an articulate way. The same cannot be said for the majority of the young Singaporeans it seems — or perhaps the KTM is wrong.
Maybe she’d grow up and change her mind about things and agree with you. Maybe she wouldn’t. Does it matter? In any case, do you think there’s really a RIGHT (as in correct) point of view in this argument of “left vs right”? Everything will eventually boil down to values. You wanna try to argue that your values are better than hers?
Tell her what you think, but cut her some slack lah. No need to try to try too hard to make her agree with you.
“Maybe she’d grow up and change her mind about things and agree with you.” (KTM)
Yah, these young radicals will change one day. (Sounds like the remarks after the LKY forum, no?)
I think regardless what “-ian” one is, if government interference is here to stay, then debate will definitely go on about what sort of government policies are better than others. I not very good with my politics, but does the idea that some form of governmental interference is better than others preclude the idea that people really need no interference?
I am a liberal and a left-leaning atheist.
There is nothing wrong with being a leftie. Better be a leftie, than a right-wing nuttie.
I think that it is extreamly closed-minded for you to say that people who go left are all lunes, if that is what you are implying. I have debated for months (i say months cus i am young and have not had enough time to dabate for “years”) with people, expressing ones opinion etc… but i have found that it is interesting to try and think about the logic in another person who’s opinion is different than yours, especially your rival. I am from the US of A, and i am a liberal democrat, well independent. Concervative Republicans…Piss Me Off. Well, lefties piss you off obviously. I think about it, and i think about why 50% of my country are republicans, and why over 50% voted for bush, and being from the most liberal state in the country, with the most liberal city in the state, and probably the most liberal school…ever, i of corse assume that they are idiots, that they are red necked hill billy…yeah. But really they are educated, just differently. They want america to be powerful, they want to use tax money to pay for munitions to use in acts of agression, when i want the same money to be used for acts of peace…or a couple extra pencils for some 5th graders never hurts; but you see getting your legs blown off by a rode-side bomb DOES hurt, i assume…ive never actually had the experience. If everywhere in america were the same, and everyone were brought up (raised) the same way…they i think we could come to some agreements, even if they were republican, and/or concervative ideals. If you have seen the latest polls for presedencial aproovement, you will notice that over 70% of my country are starting to have my opinions. It turns out that those Republican-concervative-Christian (yes, a big part of it)’s turn out to be really, really, REALLY…mean guys. I mean stealing money from the government to buy yahts and expencive cars. In the political business, you really cant make much money. Therefore in a Capitalist government, where money is a huge deal, you have to lead a campain of lies, backstabbing and other such activities. A mentor of mine has brought it to my attention that only crazies want to run for the positions like president…thats why we get all these crazies, like Bush, and Cheney. I always do wonder which opinion is the predominate one in general for the countries people. Always do wonder.
james
Left-wingers and intelligent-designers bear the same strain of lunacy.
Wth?!
It appears that the brightest from our education system tend to be lefties. This is a depressing trend.
WTH
“I do not believe: that governments have any business in business”
ken lay would be happy
“I believe: that economic liberty and individual freedoms are two sides of the same coin, and neither can be severed from the other”
Err. There are lots of countries where they are.
“that governments exists primarily to apply their monopoly over the use of physical force in the enforcement of rules that prohibit duress, coercion and physical violence”
They also exist to address market failure.
“that we human beings are all too fallible to entrust with the power to plan or control the lives of others”
State intervention /= total planning and control
Hello,
I am curious to know if you have read ‘Demanding the Impossible: A History of Anarchism’ by Peter Marshall.
>
Well, for your information you are born in a country which believe just in that lolz.
Just look at how many policy in S’pore are made to design and tweak society, it is amazing.
Singapore is considered by many as one of the the most successful socialist state in the world.
Anyway right wing and left wing are juz values as KTM had said, trying to argue your value is superior than others is inherently problematic.
Cheers.
” Little wonder also that the products of our education system have a ‘employee’ mindset. How do you cultivate entrepreneurs when everyone’s conception of capitalism is that it is an evil to be constrained by the state?”
I don’t think this has as much to do with left-leaning beliefs as it is to do with an ingrained ‘confucian-values’, or ‘asian-values’ type of government, such that both government and businesses are run in a highly heirarchical and patriarchal manner, therefore creating grateful citizens and employees who regard the government and employers as surrogate parents who demand and command unquestioning respect and gratitude and servitude whether or not it is deserved.
if they were truly left-wing, they would not consider themselves to be employees, but comrades/brothers and sisters in arms/proleteriats etc. and if singapore were truly socialist and encouraging left-leaning ideologies, why is there a 20-fold difference between the poorest and the richest, with nothing in welfare returns to narrow the gap? (apparently taken on a gross income basis, the difference between richest and poorest is about 20 times here in britain as well, but when welfare and tax breaks etc are accounted for, it narrows to 4 times)
the government has all the control over resources like a socialist/communist state, but the citizens get nothing resembling benefits in return.
personally, i would consider myself a libertarian, but at the same time i recognise the need for positive provision of certain rights and goods so as to enable substantive equality between individuals. it’s no good being all libertarian and saying everyone has equal rights and opportunities to succeed, but are pre-socially/legally/politically disadvantaged and are not able to exercise those rights to equality meaningfully.
i think I found u a partner.
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Han:
A little on the late side, but just to you know that you are not alone
I must, say, however, that your diagnosis is just a little off. It is not that “the brightest from our education system tend to be lefties” but that–like the well-educated from most education systems, actually–they tend to see society as a something that can be tweaked and designed by conscious human activity for the good and just (as opposed to a unimaginably complex system such that conscious human attempts to shape it often falls prey to the law of unintended consequences).
(Let’s call it “social intelligent designism”)
This is not a specifically left-wing issue–there can also be right-leaning sorts who think the same way. They just prefer that society be tweaked and designed for their conception of the good and just.
I also don’t think that it has a lot to do with the fact that our education system is state-run. Either that, or if it has something to do with it, only to the extent that the state looms so large in general in Singapore (rather than in education in particular).
It seems to be the specific vice of the educated and thoughtful, the ancient and classic exemplar being the conceit of the philosopher king…
Ave fellow libertarian!
Fuck the government!