The Legal Janitor

The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

The religious fundamentalist agenda: Derek Hong lies

with 6 comments

Let me start by stating that I am not homosexual. I am undeniably straight, as those who know me personally would attest. I am also not anti-religion either. What I am, is anti-stupidity, and anti-fundamentalist. This blog post is about the pernicious influence that is fundamentalist Christianity.

Where fundamentalist Islam seeks to convert by the sword, fundamentalist Christianity seeks to convert by hijacking the powers of government to enforce their morality on all people.

It’s no coincidence that Christians think of themselves as sheep. With someone like Derek Hong leading the flock, its not difficult for the sheeple to be lead astray.

It has been a central argument of mine, since the beginning, that no matter your intention, the sincerity of your beliefs or the background of your beliefs, the moment you lie to achieve your goals, you lose all moral authority.

The ends do not justify the means.

So we find ourselves in this position where, we could possibly offend the religious feelings of a particularly nauseating individual. However, I think this is a risk I am willing to take, as public interest outweighs that risk.

In this email found here, you can see the kind of measures religious fundamentalists are willing to take in order to enforce THEIR ideas and values upon others who have nothing to do with them. This includes lying and making fraudulent claims.

I will present, and analyze, the claims one by one, and present rebuttals. You, the reader, will decide for yourselves, whether Derek Hong has behaved reasonably.

1. That there is a Gay and Lesbian Lobby.

If only that were possible. Unfortunately the numbers of people who are formally involved in advocacy for equal rights for homosexuals are next to non-existent in Singapore. You are as likely to find a Gay and Lesbian Lobby in Singapore as to find an independent press. Which is next to NIL.

2. That there are people who support the decriminalisation of homosexual sex acts.

True. The first of 3 true statements that Derek Hong makes.

3. That people who seek to decriminalise homosexual sex acts also seek to criminalise religious free speech.

False. Not only blatantly false, Derek Hong also provides a fraudulent example. There are no pastors in Victoria who have been jailed for being critical or negative towards homosexuality.

Firstly, I have been here in Melbourne for the past 6 years, and I have never encountered any news report regarding this. Secondly, verification of the truth is a simple matter of googling the news, and anyone who does so will be able to see that Derek Hong’s statement is not the truth.

There HAVE BEEN however, court proceedings against Christian pastors making negative comments about Islam. An interesting point to note: Derek Hong does not mention this.

4. Legalise same-sex marriages

I think this is perhaps a misunderstanding of what the is actually being sought. “Marriage” as a term and institution, as religious underpinnings. As such, it would be illiberal and unfair to compel religious institutions to accept into their organisations what their teachings do not allow them to.

HOWEVER, it would only be morally just and fair, to grant same-sex couples the same LEGAL rights as do heterosexual couples. Marriage is not the issue here, and therefore, what Derek Hong clearly doing, is to inflame the irrational passions of his sheeple flock by suggesting to them that Christians will be forced to accept homosexuals into their organisations, when clearly that is not the purpose for seeking equal rights.

5. Legalize adoption by same sex partners

Derek Hong provides a misleading example: “Roman Catholic adoption agencies have closed down in Britain because they now have to allow their children to be adopted by same sex partners”

Let us not conflate the 2 separate issues here: ALLOWING homosexual couples to adopt, and FORCING adoption agencies to provide adoption services to homosexual couples.

The latter does not necessarily follow from the former. The law should be amended to allow homosexual couples to adopt, but not compel adoption agencies to provide adoption services to homosexual couples. Religious adoption agencies should be allowed to reject homosexual couples. It is only fair that they have a choice in the type of people they would provide services for.

This example given by Derek Hong does not show any nefarious intent on the part of those supporting equal rights for homosexuals, but rather a flawed implementation of equal rights on the part of the UK government.

Keep in mind, that there are many sorts of adoption agencies, the religious sorts are only one of those. There is no reason why there will not be adoption agencies specifically catering to same-sex couples. In a free market, supply will follow demand.

Again, it is clear that Derek Hong conflates 2 separate issues AND chose a religious example to inflame the feelings of his flock. If intentional, then Derek Hong is clearly operating in deceit. If unintentional, then the stupidity of this person beggars belief.

6. Have homosexuals classified as an ethnic group or race so that their rights are enshrined.

It is true that people seeking equal rights for homosexuals seek to have those rights enshrined at law. It does not make sense however, to achieve that by claiming homosexuals to be an ethnic group or race.

Homosexuals deserve equal rights as other human beings, because of the simple fact that they are human beings. Period.

7. Make it compulsory by law that homosexual practices are taught to children in all schools. This is already happening in some parts of the world. They have already published colourful and explicit textbooks for this purpose!

Of course, any self-respecting religious fascist must not forget including the most inflammatory statements to rile up the sheeple mob. Your children are being corrupted! They will all become evil and twisted! And it is all because of the gays!

First, a distinction. In many countries, they have private schools which are privately funded. Therefore, the influence from governments can be said to be minimal. Any possibility of governments mandating compulsory teaching of homosexuality is a question of that jurisdiction’s law, as to whether the government has acted outside of its power.

This is not so in Singapore, because all schools in Singapore are funded and controlled by the government (all schools worth going to anyway). Therefore the result is, anything that is taught in schools in Singapore is necessarily mandated by the government.

If Derek Hong has any reason to feel upset that the government mandates the teaching of anything he objects to, then he should advocate for the government to withdraw from controlling schools, and set up his own religious school to teach what he sees fit. There are many great (and I do mean great in the sense of scholarship) schools in the US that have been set up by Christian fundamentalists independent of government control.

Secondly, Derek Hong does not make clear what he means by “teaching of homosexual practices”. The implied context is that he thinks the “gay and lesbian lobby” wants to teach everyone in school to be gay. Oh the horror! If it is true that, as many homosexuals have argued, homosexuality has a biological basis (which I think is irrelevant as to whether they should have equal rights), then it is just simply impossible for any such teaching to have any effect, no?

The more likely truth is that schools should teach children to be tolerant of those who are different from them. You do not have to love or like those who are different, or even accept them. At the very least, you should just leave them alone, rather than rain fire and brimstone from your bully pulpit like our favourite fascist Derek Hong does.

The fake conservative majority

The rest of the email are instructions from Derek Hong to his sheeple flock about how to mass generate emails to the MHA and to indicate their opposition to the repeal of s 377a. In a tribute to Herr Goebbels of the Third Reich, Derek Hong provides exquisitely crafted examples to tug at the heart strings of any right thinking Christian fundamentalist, so that the MHA will “give greater weight” to their concerns.

Mass mailing the MHA to create a false impression of a conservative majority is manifestly dishonest. Such dishonest conduct is unacceptable in civil society.

You will all live as Christians, whether you like it or not.

The most interesting aspect of that email is in this portion, which I quote:

Please share this with your church leaders and members as once the law is passed in favour of the gay agenda, there’ll be no turning back the gradual undermining and destruction of Biblical family values, as well as the freedom to preach godly sexuality standards, as in now happening in parts of Britain, Australia and the US.

Singapore is not a Christian nation. We do not all accept Biblical family values. I, as a libertarian, will defend YOUR right to free speech, to preach your message to anyone. But the moment you DECEIVE and LIE for your agenda, the moment you try to HIJACK the law to enforce YOUR religious rules on others, I will vigorously resist, and call you out.

I only accept logic. I only accept the truth.

Musings: How the ‘Conservative Majority’ was created
Megachurches and Homosexuality « Winter Is Coming
Pastors vow to go to jail on hate case - National - theage.com.au

Written by Han

September 22nd, 2007 at 9:34 pm

6 Responses to 'The religious fundamentalist agenda: Derek Hong lies'

Subscribe to comments with RSS or TrackBack to 'The religious fundamentalist agenda: Derek Hong lies'.

  1. Shianux

    To just rebut your first claim that he lied.
    Read the email, all he requested that all parties who are concerned to write to the relevant parties to lodge their concerns. Very democratic,is it not.Did he request for duplicate emails,none/nada, bot emails,none/nada, use duplicate identities,none/nada.
    All you have done is shred your own argument in this particular aspect to seek truth. You are than just as guilty of mailing and making polemical statements.

    As to the 2nd, no GLBT lobby, what than is PLU, Sayoni, etc or their intended activities or the foreign groups/speakers linked with. Please just because they are not legally registered, does not make them not a lobby group.

    3. That people who seek to decriminalise homosexual sex acts also seek to criminalise religious free speech.
    Please see the case in Sweden or other Scandinavian countries for an actual case, in which yes, pastors were prosecuted and he went to jail although released on appeal.

    For Australia or NZ, do you read the news everyday or all papers, no, please note that almost all major papers there have a neo liberal inclination instead so they do not report the news of such espcially if it just warnings or fines. This from someone who has been around since 23 years ago with a network of people as such.
    So please stop making such polemical statements for also this aspect.

    From a necon leaning, (a liberal hit by reality)

    Regards
    WANG

    WANG

    25 Sep 07 at 9:31 am

  2. WANG:

    Its interesting you consider yourself a liberal-turned-neocon. That suggests your definition of “liberal” is taken from the American context.

    That being the case, I can tell you that American libertarians see no difference between neo-cons and liberals: both are equally enamoured of the idea that government intervention is the universal panacea to anything.

    If you really want to understand the libertarian position (note: libertarian is NOT “liberal” in the American context), then you might want to read up some Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek.

    I will address your comments point by point.

    1. Creation of a false majority

    The two key sentences are:

    “Hence the greater the number of similar opinions the greater the weight government will give.”

    and

    “All a person needs to do is write is something like…”

    Also consider the pro forma responses set out in his email. It is clear that he intends a mass mailing campaign to create a false impression of a majority.

    2. The existence of a gay lobby

    A distinction must be made between people who support the repeal on grounds of supporting homosexuality, and people who support the repeal on grounds that the law is unjust.

    The former is pathetically few. This are the people that Derek Hong refers to as the “Gay Lobby”. How many actual gays are there in Singapore? Not alot.

    Then there are those who are NOT gay, but support the repeal on moral grounds. I belong to this camp. I argue that s 377a is immoral and unjust, and I cannot in good conscience think that it is a law that should stay in our statute books.

    Is there a gay lobby? Let is do this simply. Check up on the dictionary meaning of “lobby”. Any dictionary will do. Do you think the numbers of gay people in Singapore are sufficient to justify the MPs even caring about their votes? No.

    Ergo, there is no “gay lobby”.

    Which is exactly why there are others who are NOT gay, who argue for the repeal. This state of affairs is morally unjust, because these are a group of people who have no voice, and who number so few that their votes don’t matter. It is up to those who are not gay, but have a conscience, to argue for the repeal.

    Are WE a “gay lobby”? No, we are not. We are the moral majority. The moral majority who care enough about other human beings, who reject USING religion as a means to oppress others.

    3. Criminalising of free speech

    An interesting note: you ask me to refer to news reports in Scandinavian countries for evidence of pastors being jailed for criticising homosexuality, while in the same breath you claim that news reports in Australia cannot be trusted to report the truth.

    Is that not blatant double-standards? Is that clearly not selectively cherry-picking evidence to suit your position?

    How about let us assume that ALL news reports cannot be trusted. Then we can discount any news reports of any person being jailed for criticising homosexuality. Or do you prefer to stick with inconsistency of reasoning and logic?

    Han

    25 Sep 07 at 10:18 pm

  3. Han

    You are as convinced of your own opinions as I am.

    I have read of your stated authors inclusive of Ayn Rand but would come to slightly different conclusions that is why we are human.

    Further, so there is nothing to add.
    Frankly, I follow the maxim
    “trust but verify”

    So you do not deny that there was a reported case in the Scandivian countries which was only reported because the person did not desist and was willing to be jailed for being thrown in jail for a time without any probationary period which is common.

    Frankly, did I state the conclusions stated in your rebuttal. No, those weere your statements.

    For your stated hate case in Victoria, do note that it was only highlighted after it went to court and towards the end after it first broke in Piers Ackerman opinion column. Was it reported beforehand with full background, nada in the Age or SMH.

    As a Sydneysider, I do read from both the right eg LGF to the left spectrum Daily Kos although I would prefer Pournelle’s political spectrum axis instead for political analysis.

    I will not reply to your further comments point by point as I am just putting up the perspective done from a factual points done. I will just point out that he did urge people as per your comment rebuttal in 2 and if it this creates your perception issue of false majority, so please what difference between your cited opinion polls,which could be argued to be the same.

    Regards

    WANG

    26 Sep 07 at 9:25 am

  4. Post a link to the petition! It’s not enough to just sign: those of us who care need to get the word out.

    http://www.repeal377a.com

    Jol

    10 Oct 07 at 5:37 am

  5. BTW, the Catholic Adoption agencies could have applied for an exemption to the UK law but chose not to and instead adopted a zero-sum approach to the situation.

    noself

    13 Nov 07 at 2:30 am

  6. I understand that the church have a group of ex homosexuals that shared their testimonials and they find that thru the churches help, they can be cured of their behaviour
    So, won’t it be fair that there are so called Homosexuals that there is a place that they could learn and change their habits.In my opinion , COOS has the guts to put this in the open and also give an avenue for homosexuals to learn and of course it is their right to change if they deem fit

    Richard

    8 Feb 08 at 12:44 am

Leave a Reply

Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 Australia
Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.5 Australia